Discussion:
List fault?
Don Gould
2011-05-03 21:52:29 UTC
Permalink
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.

Are others seeing same?

D
--
Don Gould
31 Acheson Ave
Mairehau
Christchurch, New Zealand
Ph: + 64 3 348 7235
Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699
Andreas Unterkircher
2011-05-04 03:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
long time.
Post by Don Gould
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
D
Kim Bak
2011-05-04 06:26:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Unterkircher
Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
long time.
Post by Don Gould
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan 22
2008, I never unsubscribed the list.
Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few messages
like this one.
Post by Andreas Unterkircher
Post by Don Gould
D
//Burner
Vitaly Tskhovrebov
2011-05-04 12:35:40 UTC
Permalink
The list is alive! :-D
Post by Kim Bak
Post by Andreas Unterkircher
Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
long time.
Post by Don Gould
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan 22
2008, I never unsubscribed the list.
Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few messages
like this one.
Post by Andreas Unterkircher
Post by Don Gould
D
//Burner
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
--
Regards, Vitaly.
Andy Fletcher
2011-05-04 12:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Hehe,

must be my fault. I joined the list yesterday and have got nothing but
spam, old messages and comments on how broken the list is since ;-)

The web interface to mailman is painfully slow too.

Meanwhile I'll keep reading, maybe at some point there will be some real
discussion about Routing and traffic control.

/me waves
João Almeida
2011-05-04 13:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Anyone managing the list can shed some light on the status of this list?

I for once wouldn't mind doing some moderation (if needed of course)...
Post by Andreas Unterkircher
Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
long time.
Post by Don Gould
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan 22 2008,
I never unsubscribed the list.
Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few messages like
this one.
Post by Andreas Unterkircher
Post by Don Gould
D
//Burner
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Radu Oprisan
2011-05-04 16:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Unfortunately, I think it all went to h*ll and back. I'll be more than
willing to create a new list under my own domain and we can start
discussing Linux routing once more. Anybody want me to do that?
Post by João Almeida
Anyone managing the list can shed some light on the status of this list?
I for once wouldn't mind doing some moderation (if needed of course)...
Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
long time.
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan
22 2008, I never unsubscribed the list.
Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few
messages like this one.
D
//Burner
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Brent Clark
2011-05-04 17:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radu Oprisan
Unfortunately, I think it all went to h*ll and back. I'll be more than
willing to create a new list under my own domain and we can start
discussing Linux routing once more. Anybody want me to do that?
Flip that would be awesome, and appreciated.
Linux routing is so important, and I cant believe the powers that be,
allowed this mailing list to get this state.

Kind Regards
Brent Clark
Radu Oprisan
2011-05-04 17:03:33 UTC
Permalink
I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST). Think
we can get somebody else to join?
Post by Brent Clark
Post by Radu Oprisan
Unfortunately, I think it all went to h*ll and back. I'll be more
than willing to create a new list under my own domain and we can
start discussing Linux routing once more. Anybody want me to do that?
Flip that would be awesome, and appreciated.
Linux routing is so important, and I cant believe the powers that be,
allowed this mailing list to get this state.
Kind Regards
Brent Clark
Grant Taylor
2011-05-04 18:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radu Oprisan
I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
Think we can get somebody else to join?
I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.

However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
people that stumble on to this list.

I've personally noticed, for the last couple of years, that this list
would be *EXTREMELY* delayed (as in weeks to months) for some unknown
reason. - As I look at headers of some of the recent messages, I see
that a message sat in the queue on the server for multiple months before
being delivered to my mail server.

Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if it
has straightened up it's act.

I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in his /
her stead.

Other than the above concern, I'll support moving to a new mailing list
as long as there are messages to this list (so that they can be found in
archives) indicating the move.



Grant. . . .
Radu Oprisan
2011-05-04 18:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Radu Oprisan
I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
Think we can get somebody else to join?
I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented
all over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still
be people that stumble on to this list.
I've personally noticed, for the last couple of years, that this list
would be *EXTREMELY* delayed (as in weeks to months) for some unknown
reason. - As I look at headers of some of the recent messages, I see
that a message sat in the queue on the server for multiple months
before being delivered to my mail server.
Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
it has straightened up it's act.
I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in his
/ her stead.
Other than the above concern, I'll support moving to a new mailing
list as long as there are messages to this list (so that they can be
found in archives) indicating the move.
True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
this one.
Grant Taylor
2011-05-04 19:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radu Oprisan
True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
this one.
I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that
this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.

Heck, there have been 15 messages back and forth between subscribers
today. That simply was not possible in the past couple of years.



Grant. . . .
Micro-Shock
2011-05-04 19:24:19 UTC
Permalink
going to have to agree... is nice to see however. =)
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Radu Oprisan
True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
this one.
I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that
this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.
Heck, there have been 15 messages back and forth between subscribers
today. That simply was not possible in the past couple of years.
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Joe Perches
2011-05-04 21:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Radu Oprisan
True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
this one.
I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that
this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.
I suggest asking the list admins at vger.kernel.org
to setup a linux-routing or linux-lartc mailing list.
Andrew Beverley
2011-05-04 23:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Perches
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Radu Oprisan
True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
this one.
I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that
this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.
I suggest asking the list admins at vger.kernel.org
to setup a linux-routing or linux-lartc mailing list.
+1 if the existing list can't be fixed. That's where the rest of the
Linux networking lists are.

Andy
Grant Taylor
2011-05-04 19:24:17 UTC
Permalink
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)

Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so
that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to
the mailing list (as a discussion list)?

All in favor?

Any one against?



Grant. . . .
Radoslaw Horodniczy
2011-05-04 19:33:22 UTC
Permalink
How to unsubscribe from this spam list ?

( i cannot receive password from reminder)

Please help me

Regards

Radek
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Grant Taylor" <***@riverviewtech.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 9:24 PM
To: "Mail List - Linux Advanced Routing and Traffic Control"
<***@mailman.ds9a.nl>
Subject: Re: [LARTC] List fault?
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so
that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to the
mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Grant Taylor
2011-05-04 19:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radoslaw Horodniczy
How to unsubscribe from this spam list ?
The list may be (have been) broken, but it's not a source of spam.
Post by Radoslaw Horodniczy
( i cannot receive password from reminder)
That's odd.

If you are able to receive posts to the list, you should be able to
receive the password reminders.
Post by Radoslaw Horodniczy
Please help me
Try going to the following list information URL:

http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc

There is an unsubscribe option towards the bottom of the page in the
"LARTC Subscribers" section.

You can also make some changes to your subscription by following these
directions (included in the original welcome message).

"""
You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

LARTC-***@mailman.ds9a.nl

with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
"""
Post by Radoslaw Horodniczy
Regards
Likewise.



Grant. . . .
David Hough
2011-05-04 19:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so
that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to
the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Aye

Anything else is irritating for this sort of mailing list.

Dave
Stuart Sheldon
2011-05-04 19:40:59 UTC
Permalink
In Favor...

Stuart Sheldon
ACT USA
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so
that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to
the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Radu Oprisan
2011-05-04 19:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Agreed.
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back
to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Javier Charne
2011-05-04 20:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back
to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
I agree.

Javier.-
Gregory Papangeles
2011-05-04 20:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Aye.

Greg
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Ruben Rögels
2011-05-04 20:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back
to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Please, do so.
Victor Julien
2011-05-04 20:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruben Rögels
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back
to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Please, do so.
Maybe it's an idea to use LibreList[1] or Sourceforge or something?
Saves the trouble of admin and fighting spammers.

Cheers,
Victor

[1] http://librelist.com/
--
---------------------------------------------
Victor Julien
http://www.inliniac.net/
PGP: http://www.inliniac.net/victorjulien.asc
---------------------------------------------
Ralph Loader
2011-05-04 20:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so
that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to
the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
All in favor?
Any one against?
When the "Reply-To:" field is present, it
indicates the mailbox(es) to which the ***author*** of the message
suggests that replies be sent.

As a matter of practicality, if you point Reply-To to the list,
then you are implementing a policy that all replies, no matter
how off-topic, should go to the list. That is probably not what
is wanted.

Cheers,
Ralph.
Post by Grant Taylor
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Michelle Konzack
2011-05-04 22:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Hello Grant Taylor,
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed
back to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
For WHAT? Real MTAs have <L> byside <R> and <G>
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
Any one against?
Yes.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
--
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

***@tdnet France EURL ***@tdnet UG (limited liability)
Owner Michelle Konzack Owner Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17
67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +49-176-86004575 office

<http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>
<http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.can4linux.org/>

Jabber ***@jabber.ccc.de
ICQ #328449886

Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
Don Gould
2011-05-04 22:38:44 UTC
Permalink
I'm all for just seeing if we can get to the list admin and just get the
existing list back up to scratch.

Who is the list admin?

Do we just need a new admin or supporter? Has the existing person just
got past being able to do the role (ie busy with work, family, what ever
:) )

D
Simon Leinen
2011-05-05 05:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Konzack
Hello Grant Taylor,
Post by Grant Taylor
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed
back to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
For WHAT? Real MTAs have <L> byside <R> and <G>
I'm with Michelle on this one. People are capable of choosing between
these ("r" and "f" in my case, or "Reply"/"Reply to all" on other
MUAs).
Post by Michelle Konzack
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
Any one against?
Yes.
Count me in the "against" camp.

Best regards,
--
Simon.
Kilian Krause
2011-05-06 09:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Konzack
Hello Grant Taylor,
Post by Grant Taylor
I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
take over this one.
(I'll make this pitch again.)
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed
back to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
For WHAT? Real MTAs have <L> byside <R> and <G>
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
Any one against?
Yes.
Sorry guys, but I have to support Michelle here and refrain that anyone
not familiar with the "Reply-To" problem in the context of mailinglists
do a quick google on "Reply To munging". It's really just some ugly
workaround for old/broken MUA to set Reply-To for a mailinglist pointing
back to itself.

Please don't!
--
Best regards,
Kilian
Russell Stuart
2011-05-04 23:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
Any one against?
In favour.
Alex Samad
2011-05-04 23:56:04 UTC
Permalink
+1

-----Original Message-----
From: lartc-***@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-***@mailman.ds9a.nl] On Behalf Of Russell Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011 9:41 AM
To: ***@mailman.ds9a.nl
Subject: Re: [LARTC] List fault?
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
Any one against?
In favour.
Benny Amorsen
2011-05-05 08:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back
to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
Yes. http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
No.
Post by Grant Taylor
Any one against?
Definitely.


/Benny
Gregory Papangeles
2011-05-04 19:11:08 UTC
Permalink
I agree with Grant.

Greg.
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Radu Oprisan
I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
Think we can get somebody else to join?
I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be people that stumble on to this list.
I've personally noticed, for the last couple of years, that this list would be *EXTREMELY* delayed (as in weeks to months) for some unknown reason. - As I look at headers of some of the recent messages, I see that a message sat in the queue on the server for multiple months before being delivered to my mail server.
Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if it has straightened up it's act.
I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
Other than the above concern, I'll support moving to a new mailing list as long as there are messages to this list (so that they can be found in archives) indicating the move.
Grant. . . .
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Andrew Beverley
2011-05-04 23:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Radu Oprisan
I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
Think we can get somebody else to join?
I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
people that stumble on to this list.
Agreed. I'm all for fixing what already exists rather than re-inventing
the wheel. If it's broken beyond repair though...

Andy
Russell Stuart
2011-05-05 02:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other. We
can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
means we have of coordinating is this list. Dying again soon seems
likely. I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
later.

I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
important resource. It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
chance.
Post by Grant Taylor
I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
his / her stead.
This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
waiting around for them.

The current problem we have is a social one. We are a highly technical
group. Just about of any of us could run a list server. I imagine most
of us have the resources to do so. So the problem isn't running the
server. It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
over decades as participants come and go. Having one person in charge,
running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
a good way to go.

So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
offers are such a good idea.

A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution. Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's. We would just have to organise among
ourselves governance of the list properly.

Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives. But we don't
know when the axe will fall again. The chief attraction of
vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins). So there is no
mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
to set set up the list.

So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
or so? If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
make it there worth their while.
Post by Grant Taylor
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
people that stumble on to this list.
Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that. Stumbling over a dead
list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find. A working
list what we need, and that should be our first priority.

If the person who owns ***@mailman.ds9a.nl pops up then we can do
other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
But such things are just icing on the cake. We should not wait to see
whether we can do it. Just move the list, and organise the icing later
if we can.
Alexander Samad
2011-05-05 04:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Yes, agree, affirmative, aye

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Russell Stuart
Post by Russell Stuart
Post by Grant Taylor
Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other.  We
can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
means we have of coordinating is this list.  Dying again soon seems
likely.  I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
later.
I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
important resource.  It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
chance.
Post by Grant Taylor
I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
his / her stead.
This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
waiting around for them.
The current problem we have is a social one.  We are a highly technical
group.  Just about of any of us could run a list server.  I imagine most
of us have the resources to do so.  So the problem isn't running the
server.  It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
over decades as participants come and go.  Having one person in charge,
running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
a good way to go.
So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
offers are such a good idea.
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's.  We would just have to organise among
ourselves governance of the list properly.
Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives.  But we don't
know when the axe will fall again.  The chief attraction of
vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins).  So there is no
mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
to set set up the list.
So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
or so?  If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
make it there worth their while.
Post by Grant Taylor
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
people that stumble on to this list.
Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that.  Stumbling over a dead
list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find.  A working
list what we need, and that should be our first priority.
other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
But such things are just icing on the cake.  We should not wait to see
whether we can do it.  Just move the list, and organise the icing later
if we can.
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Andrew Beverley
2011-05-05 05:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russell Stuart
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.
So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
or so?
+1
Nikolay Kichukov
2011-05-05 06:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Let's go for it then, count me in!
Post by Russell Stuart
Post by Grant Taylor
Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other. We
can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
means we have of coordinating is this list. Dying again soon seems
likely. I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
later.
I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
important resource. It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
chance.
Post by Grant Taylor
I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
his / her stead.
This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
waiting around for them.
The current problem we have is a social one. We are a highly technical
group. Just about of any of us could run a list server. I imagine most
of us have the resources to do so. So the problem isn't running the
server. It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
over decades as participants come and go. Having one person in charge,
running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
a good way to go.
So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
offers are such a good idea.
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution. Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's. We would just have to organise among
ourselves governance of the list properly.
Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives. But we don't
know when the axe will fall again. The chief attraction of
vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins). So there is no
mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
to set set up the list.
So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
or so? If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
make it there worth their while.
Post by Grant Taylor
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
people that stumble on to this list.
Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that. Stumbling over a dead
list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find. A working
list what we need, and that should be our first priority.
other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
But such things are just icing on the cake. We should not wait to see
whether we can do it. Just move the list, and organise the icing later
if we can.
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Andrew Burgess
2011-05-05 13:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russell Stuart
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution. Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's.
kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
seems like a good choice to me.
João Almeida
2011-05-05 15:19:01 UTC
Permalink
I just ask again, who is in charge now?

Why is the list awake again?

Not that I'm against a new list, but I propose four things:

1- Know what is going on!
2- Maintain this list for "compatibility" purposes
3- We can create a new one with a more easy address but keep them "tied
together" at least for a while
4- Who is in charge of the web page? I myself would like to add some life to
it... A repo of howtos/confs/scripts would be very nice, IMHO...

Basically, I agree with the new life of the community but why not revamp the
existing one? Lists can be relocated, servers as well...

What is the point of loosing all the work done so far?

Best regards,
João Almeida
Post by Russell Stuart
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution. Large a
Post by Russell Stuart
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's.
kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
seems like a good choice to me.
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Adrian Moisey
2011-05-06 06:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi

I sort of agree. This list just magically came back to life. Why? Did
someone flip a switch? Who is that person? Will they turn it off
again?

Also, regarding the site, its very static. I think a wiki could
replace it and breath some new life into it.

Adrian
Post by João Almeida
I just ask again, who is in charge now?
Why is the list awake again?
1- Know what is going on!
2- Maintain this list for "compatibility" purposes
3- We can create a new one with a more easy address but keep them "tied
together" at least for a while
4- Who is in charge of the web page? I myself would like to add some life to
it... A repo of howtos/confs/scripts would be very nice, IMHO...
Basically, I agree with the new life of the community but why not revamp the
existing one? Lists can be relocated, servers as well...
What is the point of loosing all the work done so far?
Best regards,
     João Almeida
Post by Andrew Burgess
Post by Russell Stuart
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's.
kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
seems like a good choice to me.
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Yevgeny Kosarzhevsky
2011-05-06 12:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

has anyone contacted vger.kernel.org about lartc list creation?
Post by Andrew Burgess
Post by Russell Stuart
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution. Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's.
kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
seems like a good choice to me.
Andrew Beverley
2011-05-04 06:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Gould
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
I've just had a load. Maybe they were a pile of messages that were held
for moderation and have just all been approved?

Would be nice to see some discussions on the list again!

Andy
Nikolay Kichukov
2011-05-04 06:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Same here...
Post by Andrew Beverley
Post by Don Gould
I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
Are others seeing same?
I've just had a load. Maybe they were a pile of messages that were held
for moderation and have just all been approved?
Would be nice to see some discussions on the list again!
Andy
_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
Indra Tjahjono
2011-05-05 01:23:41 UTC
Permalink
+1

------Original Message------
From: Alex Samad
Sender: lartc-***@mailman.ds9a.nl
To: ***@mailman.ds9a.nl
ReplyTo: ***@samad.com.au
Subject: RE: [LARTC] List fault?
Sent: May 5, 2011 06:56

+1

-----Original Message-----
From: lartc-***@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-***@mailman.ds9a.nl] On Behalf Of Russell Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011 9:41 AM
To: ***@mailman.ds9a.nl
Subject: Re: [LARTC] List fault?
Post by Grant Taylor
All in favor?
Any one against?
In favour.


_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
***@mailman.ds9a.nl
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc

_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list
***@mailman.ds9a.nl
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc


Verinux Xecurelink Network
Luciano Ruete
2011-05-05 12:44:46 UTC
Permalink
+1
Post by Russell Stuart
Post by Grant Taylor
Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other. We
can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
means we have of coordinating is this list. Dying again soon seems
likely. I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
later.
I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
important resource. It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
chance.
Post by Grant Taylor
I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
his / her stead.
This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
waiting around for them.
The current problem we have is a social one. We are a highly technical
group. Just about of any of us could run a list server. I imagine most
of us have the resources to do so. So the problem isn't running the
server. It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
over decades as participants come and go. Having one person in charge,
running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
a good way to go.
So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
offers are such a good idea.
A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution. Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's. We would just have to organise among
ourselves governance of the list properly.
Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives. But we don't
know when the axe will fall again. The chief attraction of
vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins). So there is no
mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
to set set up the list.
So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
or so? If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
make it there worth their while.
Post by Grant Taylor
However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
over the place. So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
people that stumble on to this list.
Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that. Stumbling over a dead
list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find. A working
list what we need, and that should be our first priority.
other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
But such things are just icing on the cake. We should not wait to see
whether we can do it. Just move the list, and organise the icing later
if we can.
--
Luciano Ruete
Sequre - Sys Admin
Mitre 617, piso 7, of. 1
+54 261 4254894
Mendoza - Argentina
http://www.sequre.com.ar/
--
Luciano Ruete
--
Luciano
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